A lot of thanks to everyone
, who helped me become a better aom player.
I would especially like to thank my clanmates
, who made me use zeus instead of Poseidon(11) in the early stages of my game.
Special thanks to Lucifer
, who always was up to play strategy testing games,and supplied me with strategies (ceasefire TC capture for example). The counter to the Hades power rush is about 70% his. Also i got most of my anti isis experience from him
Another special thanks to Tarnation
, who brought me up to a 1650ish level when i joined this community as a noob. He also gave a lot of tips on the guide, which made it more understandable, more coherent, and in some cases strategically better too.
I'd also like to thank Greek Lord
, Gol3m, and Forge_Regenade. All 3 gave me further insight into the game, which i really needed for this.
The isis counter is my copy on Caleb
's play, but i included other versions too than the today's isis counter. Thanks to him too for making up this highly effective strategy.
So, here we go, i separated the guide by the enemy's civilization and tactics.Against greek gods[/b
The BO :
1 : Train a villager at the start, build houses with 1 vill ( houses should always sorround your tc), get a temple with 8 vills, and the extra vill should build walls ( secure settlement positions and a corner) Take off a vill from the temple, send it to a corner, we'll use it for a sneak base.
(Variation : You can pick 1 vill off to start a second temple)
2 : Before the temple is finished, take off all but 2 vills. These will build barracks near your towers (in front of them). The other 2 leftovers will get you the armory. Always go Hermes and keep training myth units in your temple until you reach mythic. Train your first 2 heroes, while building your armory near your tc with 2 vills, shield the houses with it Your armory should be ready when your heroes are out.
3 : Now get like three centaurs and raid the enemy settlements with them+hippikons
. You can just put loop on hippikons and direct them to the settlement you raid.
Note: i prefer hippikons for this task, as they are faster thanks to the hermes upgrade, and their high attack is awesome for killing villagers.
4: Go heroic through Apollo, get your third hero and a villager, use your armory villagers to build market. Your wall around the closest settlement should be ready. Get a fortress with this wall builder, check your villager in the corner, get 2 academies and 1 fort there. Go mythic through either god, depending what are facing (more of this later)
4 : The centaurs keep the villagers from buiding the wall, hippikons sneak in and kill some of them. The walls will never stay unbuilt, so you have a limited amount of time to sneak in there with a small hoplite group. They should remove the unbuilt TC and/or fort.Get your bellero from a fort and train some mythic age myth units with loop on both temples
. Bellero should also help in this villager harassment if it is still going on.
5:Get more towers by shift placing
them around your TC and be sure that now only one vill is building each . It's very important than only 1 villager works on each (lesser) building you place
, this way you'll get a single one slower but you'll have 6 new buildings up at the same time - this applies to barracks and towers in secure locations.Direct your AQ'd vills to the closes settlement, and start capturing the third too.Once the second is complete, start mining gold, and get the third up ASAP.Place more walls around key sections of the map (Tc-s, edges)depends on what you need more.Send a single vill right now to the corner you secure with walls now, and get 3 markets there.
Now it's time to secure your third town center with towers or forts.
Always build an additional fortress and 2 towers at every TC after they are built. Your military base which you placed hopefully close to yourself should be protected by towers between the buildings, and forts in front of them. Scout the enemy settlements again with HIPPIKONS, and kill the villagers building it, if you can get there. This will put your enemy into his babyshoes. If it turns out that the enemy walled up in the meantime, a colossus and some toxotes who kill repairing villagers will do the job. Again if your micro is good enough you may use centaurs.
once your TC-s are ready, start your economy, by putting aq on vills. Even if your startup is a fail due to good fortification and defending, we got a plan B. You should do it even if the start is a success. :
You have time to forward your base, TAKE THE CORNERS, preferably you'd fill them up with military acadmies and forts and walls.Wall wall and wall until u have something else to do..... i cant stress this enough. your goal is to push forward and keep the enemy defending. Send hoplite waves to important enemy locations just to take attention away, i'd advise settlement raid with them, and then a big wave on the main TC. Against good players, a late hoplite rush like this is inadvisable, but scout
to see if its a god idea or not. If it isn't, still down the enemy unbuilt settlements, and get lots of colossoi ready for an attack on main TC. For this you need to stop AQ, handle unit training manually.
With ceasefire, the sneak base/corner base strategy can do quite some damage to your enemy, you may even be able to grab a settlement of his while cease and that TC wont be undefended thanks to your nearby buildings. The best way to do this is to go through an underworld passage with 5 helepolis, some medusas or colossoi, and infantry +heroes of course. If your uw gets attacked,use your lightning storm (if Hera), remember that the uw can be repaired, and when the TC is down, get 14+ villagers through the underworld passage, place the TC and invoke cease before it gets attacked. If there is room take 1 vill off to build military academies, and now you can micromanage your eco a bit as you got time. If possible use more vills on building spam, it wins you time in case you lose this Tc. When cease has expired, spam towers and forts near your underworld. Here is a little showoff of this underworld + ceasefire combo.
This is easier to do on side TC-s , but in this game this was the better choice.
note that there is no need to use underworld for achieving this.
Never do this to a hades who still has earthquake, he will both destroy your underworld, and your TC that is being built.
Greek stalemates are one of the worst things that can happen to your enemy if he isn't zeus. You simply attack with colossoi everywhere, and keep your heroes scattered horizontally on your side, to fend of incoming colossoi attack if thats happening to you. Your goal is to either take out the enemy trade, or successfully forward, killing the buildings. I suggest to use walls as defense for petrobolis. This way they can't be harmed, and you kill enemy buildings without suffering damage. Pull up multy layer walls, so as to prevent surprise attacks, at least for until you get there to fend it off. Capture relics now if you didn't until now, might help a bit.
Also forward temples and towers and forts. Still try to achieve higher map control, like prevent the enemy from using outer gold mines. Microing your petrobolis against drop sites is as effective as general raiding(idle time), but you don't lose anything
Don't forget that it's gonna be easy to remove a drop site thats being built.Myrmidons are perhaps the best regular soldiers in the game after fanatics, as they can kill even their counters, when they are fully upgraded
. You shouldn't spam them though, especially not, when you choose the following combo : Hermes+Apollo+Hera.
Why not? They are costly, they take 3 population units instead of the 2 pop of hoplites. What would you pick? 15 hoplites or 10 myrmidons? And btw they dont have bonus dmg vs greek.
Note that hoplites are faster when you go zeus. Don't neglect their raiding skills, and that of hippikons (they are faster thanks to Hermes)
If you don't use this ceasefire strategy, then you might want to use underworld as a finishing god power. Keep the enemy on 1 TC, invoke underworld on his main Tc and destroy it with colossoi, hoplites and helepolis. But that's endlessly harder. If you managed to take the corners you'll have to look for markets in surprising locations, the enemy might still have a decent trade.Against hades-power rush
Starting Bo should be the same, but advance through hera. Use your first heroes and scout, and centaurs to harass the forward building villagers, try to kill them all with hippikons. Get buildings in a scattered fashion, so that pestilence won't affect all of them. Bolt the first chimera you see closing on on your villagers, and train hoplites in both your corner base and main to attack the enemy forward base. You yourself should hurry to get 2 TC too, use ceasefire for countering pestilence. Have medusas for killing enemy myth units (at your unbuilt TC at first), and some prodromos if you are getting pushed back. Scout the map, search for his gold miners, and if you consider it save, underworld on them and kill them all.
The enemy earthquake won't be able to kill your TC because of the buildings around it, and lighting storm will cause your enemy heavy losses. Here you should be careful, as he will have a free use of his underworld, get ready for a siege/gastra drop.
Now you are many steps ahead of hades, because he doesn't have trade, you killed a lot of villagers. Once you manage to get petrobolis between towers, it won't be hard to push back in the center, which will cost hades guy the game.Against NORSE gods :
Go for the "greek war" build order, except for gods. Use : Athena/Apollo/Hephaistos. Always be careful at the start, because a norse guys will try to get total map control, meaning that he'll BUILD AT YOUR Tc-s. You have to quickly eliminate this with archers and hypaspists and wall up fast.Use minotaurs too early on ulfsarks. All of this means that scouting is going to be essential, don't dare to miss a sneak base! Scout the main TC, see if there is tower spamming. If no, hoplite rush him!(don't attack main TC, kill the buildings around it).That will give you precious time. See if you can raid the settlements... this should delay him, and if you're lucky, this will keep him on 1 Tc for a short time.
Don't go for central fights, this is what a norse will want you to do... tower spam is easy for them in forward base, so counter it with tower spamming of your own, and shoot the towers out with petrobolos from between towers/behind walls. Combine center build with a side build. I could also say : Fill your side of the map. Keeping him off his Tc-s will be very difficult, but colossoi will do the job if you're fast enough. Escort these colossoi with hoplites.
Always be careful with norse corner builds. they'll most probably gonna try an early capturing of your trade route, like i advised it for Zeus too. Kill these quickly.Norse will be very desperate for gold
. If you can somehow manage to prevent the market to get some good trade up, you're a winner.Very aggressive play is affordable by you, just start eco once you get 2nd TC. You need to wall up every entrance so it can't get raided, and DO USE MULTIPLE WALL LAYERS!!! (for line of sight and extra defense)...multiple towers take too long to build, so only have a fort for garrisoning behind the wall. Same as always, loop from main TC on vills directed on Tc being built. Two TC loop on vills should do in terms of eco, unless you don't have trade.
Actually you won't need trade until the start of the lategame phase.
If you destroy forts at the start ( and generally sneak bases), you'll have a major advantage because he builds with infantry - so try to keep him short on buildings. One more advantage you gain is map control. His buildings are now removed -mostly - so you can simple push at the center, and forward yourself (take a corner too) Archers are very important because norse needs much infantry in the early stages, so have more toxotes after the hypaspist rush. Totally neglect cavalry , except if they are defending a certain section (mostly against rams), but later you can use them to raid goldmines. If the norse manages to get a good trade up, you'll have to underworld in on it and capture that place by spamming towers. Careful with frost, get only a medium sized army through, pop out the rest later. If the norse has frost giants, don't use colossoi in early fights, keep em idle until uw. Their high number will be a deadly advantage(get them through uw after frost!!!). In case your repairing vills get freezed, use restoration on uw (thats if it getsd attacked). Get temples to for healing your units at all times, that'll give you even more of a military advantage. Your bellerophon should always be microed against fire giants
: jump, 2 hits, move out, jump again. Keep your bolt to kill a nigghog if the enemy is Loki, otherwise look for a weak spot and use it there. If he starts using jarls, it's time to bring in myrmidons. They'll be very good against any sort of unit he has, but be careful with eco if you use them. If you can't manage to distrupt his eco, you should send in colossoi everywhere on the map, while pushing forward in the middle. If you're lucky you can get a TC down this way. Kill the units now around you, and build around that downed TC. He won't have population now, and you can overwhelm him by holding that position and pushing later. If none of this worked try killing his buidings again and remove his market at all costs. This doesn't have to hurt you too much, you can simply use restoration on your army, and you won't lose much even if you face heavy tower fire, but be smart and use siege or colossoi for this task. Very careful with ram attacks please
. Once you spot them (should happen while they are walking in or you are screwed), get your hack attack army on them. These guys are a good reason for keeping 4-5 prodromos idle, it won't be so much of a drawback for you considering that they will be helpful against rams, who are present in every game. Villagers should rather attack them than repair TC once they get there.
A decent game where i could counter on all fronts, despite of my idleness : http://www.pclive-assistance.fr/share/files/get/grqIzPrQUW/nakas-anti-norse-decent.rcxAgainst atlanteans
: These guys will die to anti greek Bo, and underworld on main Tc. By the time you do that, their eco will be weak and standard army battles combined with raiding will beat them.Prevent market here too, and kill heroes asap(high cost for them) same for vills
The main problem with atties is that he wont have something up early enough. Be it a wall, forward base or anything. You can easily run in with centaurs or even minotaurs - i prefer cents though because of the ceasefire strategy.
Dont forget to spam towers at your TCs t fend off noobish contarius hero rushes. Some prodromos wont make you feel worse either.
In my opinion you dont need more specific things against atty... Information provided above should do... basically they have no way of beating greek map control, you can prevent their trading with ease.
Build up against egyptians(Isis/Ra): (Osiris godpath)
Always go for the following combo : Athena, Apollo, Hera, - thats to counter if they use Osiris. If the eggy uses Thoth, go for colossoi. Start like this : 8 villagers on temple, 1 on houses. Before the temple is complete, send 6 to the closest tower to your temple.Get both heroes. Create a small box of buildings with each type of barrack (5) and get 1 more tower inside this box. Send the 2 vills remaining to build the armory behind your TC.This way you can kill incoming mercs in the box, using heroes, myth units, hoplites, hippika and toxotes.
If the mercs somehow manage to get to your vills, garrison them, and pop them out like 2 seconds later. Once heroic, get a market using 3 vills in your backbase, and a fort opposite to the box-built barracks.
Now you have the advantage : You made the enemy waste gold. Go with your hoplites and hippikons seperately to the untaken TC-s of the enemy, and prevent both. (Most likely that will fail, but you can kill some villagers, and prevent 1 for the time being)
Hurry with getting to mythic age, so that you can use your god powers earlier. Look for forwarded midgols.
Now have a battle in the middle, closer to you if possible (for faster reinforcements, using hiphoptox combination), you will win this for sure, but if the enemy doesn't retreat soon enough, use restoration to have a full life army and to win the first battle
. Isis guy is even shorter on gold
now. Go on with doing hoplite raids
, try to prevent him from getting a[b] trade
up. Kill mummies with Bellerophon, save your bolt for the son of osiris
. Take out the eggy trade to win using underworld passage and lots of helepolis (right now only mercenaries can really hurt them, camelry isn't popular early) You may try to use this place as your own trade corner. Advised unit combo : Hippikons+toxotes+medusa+heroes
-> Very effective. With this combo you'll win until the swap to camelry+slinger+petsuchsus is done, which is too costly for Isis. Scout now to see if there is still a trade up elsewhere.
Your goal now should be to take out either the trade, or his gold miners. As isis needs trade always, you will have to underworld in on his trade, and capture that corner. Here you will find yourself in a fight, in my opinion this is the place where lightning storm should be used.
After the trade is removed, you need to systematically remove him from the map, and while that, raid with hippikons to keep the economy down.
There can be still a minor trade around, and it will most likely go through the main TC-s area. You need to take this out too, along with the town center.
There are two versions for doing this.1: underworld
(if you didn't need it to take out trade) If the main Tc is too heavily fortified, go a little further away (closer to edge of the map) and use underworld there. Get forts and towers around your underworld, get academies there too. You might be able to capture a TC of him even despite of a Tc screw. He'll be forced to be on the defensive, and this is exactly what you want. Now you just gotta push to win.
Some showoff :http://www.pclive-assistance.fr/share/files/get/FW1zNGFCl8/naka-vs-mrripper.rcx2:raiding and pushing
sounds easy?well it isnt. you certainly have to change your unit combo multiple times, and you need towers and walls everywhere. Isis wont be gold starved soon as she has prosperity. Once the isis invokes it, be sure to raid every goldmine. while your central attacks, kill as many mummies with your bellero as possible and invoke restoration and lightning storm like explained above, in two different battles, and do it ASAP. Try to bring the fight to where his villagers are, this way you can micro better and lighning storm will do maximum dmg. If he is using mummies and only mummies to defend a place then you should send in as many hoplites as many mummies you are facing, then just kill them with medusas and bellero (this needs good micro). Now you can raid and attack, without trade and due to the loss of mummies he will be short on gold.
The hard part is to be fast enough and acting before the enemy even thinks.
Further basic stuff to be done against isis
Predict, when Locust will come, and try to save a maximum number of villagers by garrisoning them in a fort.
As for roc drops in later game, have your Odysseus ready once you spot that there is close to no micro on the enemy army. This means that he has his eyes on the roc.
Watch out for where prosperity gets invoked, maybe your opponent invokes in on the goldmine where he is xD Unlikely though, still can happen.
More of this coming from Caleb Thoth rush - elephant drop counter
Use the same build order, but secure your main TC with many more towers, and up to 3 forts, build around your TC, leave only 1 little space where 10 ellies fit in xD, and have an idle army defending your main TC. Use a high number of medusas . Get your second TC fast, and try to kill the enemy eco fast. A Thoth rusher won't have big trade up early, so just use the same underworld strategy. As this strategy is a big gold waster in case of failing, only a titan and further elephant+ priest spamming can hold you back. Go for prodromos rather than medusas in this case, and do some big hoplite+helepolis attacks on the sides. Use same general tips as above, bolt on a loaded roc though.
Rec : http://www.pclive-assistance.fr/share/files/get/QTC9MCOSyl/isis-counter.rcxVariation :Osiris+Elephant drops
This strategy, currently under Lucifer's development is not too easy to counter. You will be TC prevented for a long time, while Isis can get 3 TC very soon. Elephant drops (4-5 ellies) will occur at your unbuilt settlements, and locust+them will take care of it.
That happens if you try to take 2 TC-s simultaneously. Keep a maximal number of villagers on the fort next to the settlement, have 2 medusas and 3 prodromos there. You can get the TC up relatively soon after locust is gone.
You need to win your battles at the front and prevent his forwarding at all costs. In this strategy the use of elephants and priests is more likely than a simple chariot+axeman spam. Also petsuchsus will make an appearance, you are going to need the best of your bellero micro.
It might also occur that isis invokes eclypse in the first battle to prevent you from using restoration. With a merc wave, they might even win the fight, and forward closer. This is where you need to break the eco. If you don't, you are dead meat.
Underworld is needed here to take out the trade always. Before you do that, be sure that there can be no high value trade sites elsewhere.
Eco : Zeus needs a lot of food and gold, and not so much wood. Have up to 25 food
gatherers at the late stages of a game, but if the suggested tactics will work out, you wont need so much. 20 caravans, and 10 villagers on mines
are enough for gold, but once you ate up all mines, swap to full trade in lategame , and use your ex-gold vills on either other resources, or forward building. 15-20 wood
collectors are enough too, but use more if you are helepolis/toxotes/building spam focused. Wall in the caravan routes, get 2 forts and 2 towers to cover the whole track. In the anti eggy strat you'll need a bit more wood and less food though.
Order of resource gathering : gold-food-wood
, but you may have to do a gold-wood-food
order, depending on your unit combo.
Defense : Always have towers in EACH FORWARD BASE, and one fortress and each sorts military buildings of each type to train troops. To counter siege, use prodromos, as they are the fastest unit you have. The best defense is to fill the map. Easiest way to do this is walling up. GO further and further, but don't create a maze, use gates. Behind each layer of wall, get new buildings. Temple forwarding is a rather unusual strategy. It .can heal your units in proximity, never forget that. This is a wonderful way to save your bellerophon, it takes less time to heal him then to retrain him, if u can remember this 10 times, it means 4000 gold saved. Very effective if you kill loads of enemy myth units with him. ALWAYS MICROMANAGE BELLEROPHON CAREFULLY!!!!
This is it, hope you enjoy it/helps you.
I might occasionally edit/add recs/change recs, whatever.