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 iron maiden pls review this rec :)

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death



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PostSubject: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:47 am

well maiden i tried aom but was way to manual for me so instead of just trying to do everything manual at once, i tried doing only vill production manual and autoqueueing my army till i master vill macro without autoqueue pls tell me how i did pls Smile

map:alfeim
me(odin) vs lmao(isis)
25 min game

he was medium not good of a plyer my level i guess pls watch and tell me my pros and cons Smile


http://www.pclive-assistance.fr/share/files/get/rtwRlq3TKi/manual-macro-.rcx
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:36 pm

**okay i jsut got done writing this..... i apologize for the length hahaha. AoM is such an intricate and complex game, there's a LOT to talk about!!!! so i hope that none of what i said is a little too much to grasp right now, but if you can start to understand it and apply it to your gameplay, you will be able to pound on the gameranger players >Very Happy. and ya i start to ramble a lot.... i apologize for that too xD*****

thats a good idea. After you get your manual mechanics down, then you can start playing aom so u get used to the other differences like no free mu, etc.


Okay, so now of course mechanics is something everyone always needs to work on. I wasn't watching the tc's TOO closely because it looked like you were doing a good job producing vills. so good job with that, keep it up, and just make sure all of your tc's are ALWAYS making vills.

i think what you need to work on and be able to understand is strategy. with loki, you can do the exact same thing every single game and get 1800 11. Pretty dam easy. Odin and thor aren't as lucky, with these guys you need to have some strategy involved since a million myth units aren't an option to just win games easily hahaha.
So, i'm not exactly sure what your strategy was, going into the game. ofc you were going to boom since u took the 2nd tc right away, but im talking about the rest of the 'picture', the military strategy etc. You began with 2 rax making rc and ta. what were you planning on doing with them? You can't go and start attacking eggy buildings and such very cost-effective (cuz of free towers etcetc.) like you could do vs greek and norse.
No, with eggy the most effective way to win a game is through a gold starve. So you need to scout as much of the map as you can during archaic with your ulfsark, then get the rest of the map scouted with yuour ravens asap. That way you will know where the gold mines are, where he will mostlikely be going for gold next and where you can wall and tower if needed to not let him gather gold there. Another option when there is plenty of hunt (this map) is to simply outboom, get heroic and just outspam/outeco and take 4v2 tc advantage etc and finish the game around 15-20 mins with a strong army and strong eco. You have to play vs an eggy differently than than the other civs.
So, this map: it had plenty of hunt, plenty of gold (making a gold starve not an option) and great tc placement for you. So what are your options? Well there are several, especially since he advanced late and you could take a LOT of hunt. He was just sitting there for most of the game, so you could have taken his tc and outboomed him, gotten a full pop ragnarok with 4v2 tc's, gotten rams, and gone fuckin crazy with that hahaha. (lets pretend he is a better opponent haha).
okay i'm rambling on without much direction...... That is all good stuff to read that i just typed so i wont delete it (hopefully it willl get your mental juices flowing, so you can think about aspects of strategy and such)

let me sort of back up a bit. How do you win a game? well there are lots of ways. gold starve, cf etc. Perhaps a better question is: how do you put yourself in a position to win a game? Or: how can you gain an advantage over your opponent so you can win the game?
Well, there's population advantages (taking 4v2 tcs), controlling the gold, out micro, out lame etc etc etc etc.
So you need to look at the map, think of your opponent's god choice and choose the best route to take to put yourself in a position of advantage so you will be the winner. SO you look at the map, see he has ample gold, so gold control is not the most viable way to go. Now, often times your strategy will change mid-game, because of decisions your opponent makes. So a good way to begin any game is to push your opponent off of hunt. Its the fastest way to gain food, it gives you a strong eco, so your first small advantage is not letting him hunt. Well, with norse an easy way of doing that is with some quick rc. so you can easily push him off hunt when u advanced so much earlier with a handful of rc. You may not have decided your exact plan of strategy, but making some rc and pushing him off hunt is a good way to start and still allow you to do whatever you want. So yo0u would have seen that this guy is spamming pure axemen. So he's not getting heroic and building a mig at 7.30-8 mins. thats good news for you. So how can you get an advantage over him? how can you use his decision to spam pure axemen, and turn it around and kill it easily? There's some different things you can do. Having 2 rax spam units and then suiciding them is not the route to take hahahaha, i can tell you that much.

I'm not gonna tell you exactly what to do. Every game is different, every map is different, every opponent is different, there are 9 (or 12 for aot) different gods you could be playing against. There are tons of different scenarios, so you gotta be able to adapt strategy, and choose strategy based on these different elements.

What i can do, is tell you what i was thinking while i was watching the game. (strategy wise) Also kind of paint a specific scenario of what i would be thinking and reasons behind my decisions if i were in your shoes this game:

So he has an army of pure axemen and he's not good so he doesn't micro. So what i would have done is (already) have built my 4 rax, started with rc to get him off hunt. Then i saw he was spamming axemen, thats fine, i'll spam some ta to counter him, then i'll micro my horses and kill his entire army with some really easy ta+cav micro. After he has no army, immediately what i was thinking (since this is aot) is that he doesn't have siege, and he can't take down buildings efficiently in classical. So i'm gonna take his forward tc. So i'll send my rc over to that gold mine to distract him, and i'm gonna take his tc with my axemen and start expanding my eco from that tc. So i might kill a few gold vills, yay for me, and now his army ist here to defend, so i run my horses away, finish making the tc then i build some rax and maybe a tower around it, thus securing it. So what next? Well i've scouted and he has great gold, so i can't go for a gold starve. How else can i win teh game? Well i can decimate his town somehow...... how am i gonna do that? Well seige kills buildings quickly, i have a population advantage over him already..... what should i do? Well I'm odin and odin's hill fort units are op Smile. So i'll go heroic and slap some hill forts down, get some seige, get a nice mixture of units (mu's, ta, jarls and rams) and i'll beat the shit out of his town easily 11. I dont need to take another tc for that, i dont need to wall or tower, i dont need to do anything crazy. All i'm doing is capitalizing on the first advantage that i got over him by massacring his army (easily, i might add.....really with some simple rc kiting in front of your ta, all of his army would be toast 11).

Something i dont quite understand about aot players, is that a lot of you guys seem to not be able to end the game in heroic. You either end it fast in classical (krush, athena/heimdall rush etc) or it goes lategame and laming and this and that blablabla. A lot of dumb thor players try to go rag to win teh game 11, when really they lose their whole eco, their rag doesn't win them the game and they end up losing.... really what they should have done is spam all the eco upgrades, the mil upgrades and go all out in heroic around the 15-20 minute time. Norse can be pretty fuckin strong in heroic >Very Happy (i know u played odin this game), but especially thor since his armory upgrades are cheap.


Okay i'm rambling again..... basically what you need to start understanding is the strategy of how to win teh game. Not just some robotic 'I ATTACK ENEMY, ENEMY DEAD' type of thing. There's a lot of strategy involved of tc placement, gold placement, micro'ing etc etc etc that really makes it fun to play and be able to do different strategies Very Happy.
(the most important thing to execute whatever strategy you want? a strong eco, so keep those vills pumping and those eco upgrades researching!! haha)



Some quick specific details about this game: you let too many units die unnecessarily. When u first started attacking with your ta/rc/hersir, probably about half of your army died just because 1 unit ran into his whole army of axemen at a time 11. Think of your units as precious precious resources, and you dont want to pay those resources just to have them wasted ><. Be very attentive of all of your units and make sure you dont let them die like that.
1 other thing: when u moved your gold way the hell up in front of his base ....... LOL you silly silly smurf! xD. i dont think i need to explain why that was bad haha ><
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:52 pm

too long,tbh didn't even thought of starting to read.
anyway imo
really bad map for odin. Never let eggy player reach heroic. With the time you gave him, normally a good player would have went heroic, killed your hunt with priests while your hersirs are building tc and no one is protecting them, built an additional tc. What i advice is being aggressive and gold starve them.
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:36 pm

AoL_Iron_maiden wrote:
**okay i jsut got done writing this..... i apologize for the length hahaha. AoM is such an intricate and complex game, there's a LOT to talk about!!!! so i hope that none of what i said is a little too much to grasp right now, but if you can start to understand it and apply it to your gameplay, you will be able to pound on the gameranger players >Very Happy. and ya i start to ramble a lot.... i apologize for that too xD*****

thats a good idea. After you get your manual mechanics down, then you can start playing aom so u get used to the other differences like no free mu, etc.


Okay, so now of course mechanics is something everyone always needs to work on. I wasn't watching the tc's TOO closely because it looked like you were doing a good job producing vills. so good job with that, keep it up, and just make sure all of your tc's are ALWAYS making vills.

i think what you need to work on and be able to understand is strategy. with loki, you can do the exact same thing every single game and get 1800 11. Pretty dam easy. Odin and thor aren't as lucky, with these guys you need to have some strategy involved since a million myth units aren't an option to just win games easily hahaha.
So, i'm not exactly sure what your strategy was, going into the game. ofc you were going to boom since u took the 2nd tc right away, but im talking about the rest of the 'picture', the military strategy etc. You began with 2 rax making rc and ta. what were you planning on doing with them? You can't go and start attacking eggy buildings and such very cost-effective (cuz of free towers etcetc.) like you could do vs greek and norse.
No, with eggy the most effective way to win a game is through a gold starve. So you need to scout as much of the map as you can during archaic with your ulfsark, then get the rest of the map scouted with yuour ravens asap. That way you will know where the gold mines are, where he will mostlikely be going for gold next and where you can wall and tower if needed to not let him gather gold there. Another option when there is plenty of hunt (this map) is to simply outboom, get heroic and just outspam/outeco and take 4v2 tc advantage etc and finish the game around 15-20 mins with a strong army and strong eco. You have to play vs an eggy differently than than the other civs.
So, this map: it had plenty of hunt, plenty of gold (making a gold starve not an option) and great tc placement for you. So what are your options? Well there are several, especially since he advanced late and you could take a LOT of hunt. He was just sitting there for most of the game, so you could have taken his tc and outboomed him, gotten a full pop ragnarok with 4v2 tc's, gotten rams, and gone fuckin crazy with that hahaha. (lets pretend he is a better opponent haha).
okay i'm rambling on without much direction...... That is all good stuff to read that i just typed so i wont delete it (hopefully it willl get your mental juices flowing, so you can think about aspects of strategy and such)

let me sort of back up a bit. How do you win a game? well there are lots of ways. gold starve, cf etc. Perhaps a better question is: how do you put yourself in a position to win a game? Or: how can you gain an advantage over your opponent so you can win the game?
Well, there's population advantages (taking 4v2 tcs), controlling the gold, out micro, out lame etc etc etc etc.
So you need to look at the map, think of your opponent's god choice and choose the best route to take to put yourself in a position of advantage so you will be the winner. SO you look at the map, see he has ample gold, so gold control is not the most viable way to go. Now, often times your strategy will change mid-game, because of decisions your opponent makes. So a good way to begin any game is to push your opponent off of hunt. Its the fastest way to gain food, it gives you a strong eco, so your first small advantage is not letting him hunt. Well, with norse an easy way of doing that is with some quick rc. so you can easily push him off hunt when u advanced so much earlier with a handful of rc. You may not have decided your exact plan of strategy, but making some rc and pushing him off hunt is a good way to start and still allow you to do whatever you want. So yo0u would have seen that this guy is spamming pure axemen. So he's not getting heroic and building a mig at 7.30-8 mins. thats good news for you. So how can you get an advantage over him? how can you use his decision to spam pure axemen, and turn it around and kill it easily? There's some different things you can do. Having 2 rax spam units and then suiciding them is not the route to take hahahaha, i can tell you that much.

I'm not gonna tell you exactly what to do. Every game is different, every map is different, every opponent is different, there are 9 (or 12 for aot) different gods you could be playing against. There are tons of different scenarios, so you gotta be able to adapt strategy, and choose strategy based on these different elements.

What i can do, is tell you what i was thinking while i was watching the game. (strategy wise) Also kind of paint a specific scenario of what i would be thinking and reasons behind my decisions if i were in your shoes this game:

So he has an army of pure axemen and he's not good so he doesn't micro. So what i would have done is (already) have built my 4 rax, started with rc to get him off hunt. Then i saw he was spamming axemen, thats fine, i'll spam some ta to counter him, then i'll micro my horses and kill his entire army with some really easy ta+cav micro. After he has no army, immediately what i was thinking (since this is aot) is that he doesn't have siege, and he can't take down buildings efficiently in classical. So i'm gonna take his forward tc. So i'll send my rc over to that gold mine to distract him, and i'm gonna take his tc with my axemen and start expanding my eco from that tc. So i might kill a few gold vills, yay for me, and now his army ist here to defend, so i run my horses away, finish making the tc then i build some rax and maybe a tower around it, thus securing it. So what next? Well i've scouted and he has great gold, so i can't go for a gold starve. How else can i win teh game? Well i can decimate his town somehow...... how am i gonna do that? Well seige kills buildings quickly, i have a population advantage over him already..... what should i do? Well I'm odin and odin's hill fort units are op Smile. So i'll go heroic and slap some hill forts down, get some seige, get a nice mixture of units (mu's, ta, jarls and rams) and i'll beat the shit out of his town easily 11. I dont need to take another tc for that, i dont need to wall or tower, i dont need to do anything crazy. All i'm doing is capitalizing on the first advantage that i got over him by massacring his army (easily, i might add.....really with some simple rc kiting in front of your ta, all of his army would be toast 11).

Something i dont quite understand about aot players, is that a lot of you guys seem to not be able to end the game in heroic. You either end it fast in classical (krush, athena/heimdall rush etc) or it goes lategame and laming and this and that blablabla. A lot of dumb thor players try to go rag to win teh game 11, when really they lose their whole eco, their rag doesn't win them the game and they end up losing.... really what they should have done is spam all the eco upgrades, the mil upgrades and go all out in heroic around the 15-20 minute time. Norse can be pretty fuckin strong in heroic >Very Happy (i know u played odin this game), but especially thor since his armory upgrades are cheap.


Okay i'm rambling again..... basically what you need to start understanding is the strategy of how to win teh game. Not just some robotic 'I ATTACK ENEMY, ENEMY DEAD' type of thing. There's a lot of strategy involved of tc placement, gold placement, micro'ing etc etc etc that really makes it fun to play and be able to do different strategies Very Happy.
(the most important thing to execute whatever strategy you want? a strong eco, so keep those vills pumping and those eco upgrades researching!! haha)



Some quick specific details about this game: you let too many units die unnecessarily. When u first started attacking with your ta/rc/hersir, probably about half of your army died just because 1 unit ran into his whole army of axemen at a time 11. Think of your units as precious precious resources, and you dont want to pay those resources just to have them wasted ><. Be very attentive of all of your units and make sure you dont let them die like that.
1 other thing: when u moved your gold way the hell up in front of his base ....... LOL you silly silly smurf! xD. i dont think i need to explain why that was bad haha ><

nice thx for takin ur time to write all this Smile

yea i know i need to raid with my army idle army is just as bad as idle vills especially when u vs isis lol and ye i moved my vills in front of his base to steal his gold lol i guess it wasn't too smart Razz and my army died without me even knowing cuz the idiots went back to fight a/e when i clicking for them to come back to base and they just went back to fight by their selves lol i was so mad when that happened and yea ok so kick off hunt and wall off gold got it and thx for the review bro appreciate it very much, i read everything btw so keep the long reviews coming Smile
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:37 pm

Evil_Vegito wrote:
too long,tbh didn't even thought of starting to read.
anyway imo
really bad map for odin. Never let eggy player reach heroic. With the time you gave him, normally a good player would have went heroic, killed your hunt with priests while your hersirs are building tc and no one is protecting them, built an additional tc. What i advice is being aggressive and gold starve them.

ahh ok i see so ur suggesting i rush him instead of the 2 tc boom? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:37 pm

(sorry vegito lol.... i know its a long read, but it has some important stuff in there for papa smurf Wink )

no no no lol

there's a difference between being aggressive and rushing. its just straight up not a smart idea to rush an eggy unless they have bad gold + their 2nd gold would be easy to deny them. You can however rush them off of food, that's a different story than a straight up typical rush.

like i said, you can change ur strat depending on the map and such. so on a map like watering hole, there is a lot of hunt so you can easily outboom him. On the other hand, on a map like savannah, the gold is always in question. against an eggy fh, i am almost always aggressive and gold starve him through mass walls. so use your ravens to quickly find his hunt, if there is any outside his base. immediately get horses over there to knock him off of it. then just wall him in his base so that he will not be able to leave it without destroying a wall. Force him to use a/e to either get out of his base or to build a migdol, and thats when u return with your army (after having run away) to kill his mig before he gets a sizable army, thus gold starving him.

here i'll show u 2 differnt types of recs. (aom recs) one is me playing, the other isn't haha. (one's odin, one's thor). The odin player plays vs isis on savanna close to how i do it. and in this specific game he was aggressive whereas i possibly would have gone heroic. but anyways here it is:

http://rts-sanctuary.com/Age-Of-Mythology/fview=3&showtopic=207643&#entry2281907
odin vs isis on savanna. Mass walls Smile. i'd say that he was aggressive this game. aggressive does not mean rush*. But it means putting pressure on your opponent and being on the offensive. Notice he actually built his rax pretty dam far forward despite a/e.

http://aolclan.myfreeforum.org/about1305.html
my thor vs isis on watering hole. I do a yogie style semi fh with hersir. (i was supposed to advance through forseti instead of freyja hahaha.... i clicked freyja on accident out of habit... so ya the general idea is to play SORT OF like loki with hot hersir. boom, take tc's, and if necessary fight a/e with well micro'd hersir)

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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:16 pm

AoL_Iron_maiden wrote:
(sorry vegito lol.... i know its a long read, but it has some important stuff in there for papa smurf Wink )

no no no lol

there's a difference between being aggressive and rushing. its just straight up not a smart idea to rush an eggy unless they have bad gold + their 2nd gold would be easy to deny them. You can however rush them off of food, that's a different story than a straight up typical rush.

like i said, you can change ur strat depending on the map and such. so on a map like watering hole, there is a lot of hunt so you can easily outboom him. On the other hand, on a map like savannah, the gold is always in question. against an eggy fh, i am almost always aggressive and gold starve him through mass walls. so use your ravens to quickly find his hunt, if there is any outside his base. immediately get horses over there to knock him off of it. then just wall him in his base so that he will not be able to leave it without destroying a wall. Force him to use a/e to either get out of his base or to build a migdol, and thats when u return with your army (after having run away) to kill his mig before he gets a sizable army, thus gold starving him.

here i'll show u 2 differnt types of recs. (aom recs) one is me playing, the other isn't haha. (one's odin, one's thor). The odin player plays vs isis on savanna close to how i do it. and in this specific game he was aggressive whereas i possibly would have gone heroic. but anyways here it is:

http://rts-sanctuary.com/Age-Of-Mythology/fview=3&showtopic=207643&#entry2281907
odin vs isis on savanna. Mass walls Smile. i'd say that he was aggressive this game. aggressive does not mean rush*. But it means putting pressure on your opponent and being on the offensive. Notice he actually built his rax pretty dam far forward despite a/e.

http://aolclan.myfreeforum.org/about1305.html
my thor vs isis on watering hole. I do a yogie style semi fh with hersir. (i was supposed to advance through forseti instead of freyja hahaha.... i clicked freyja on accident out of habit... so ya the general idea is to play SORT OF like loki with hot hersir. boom, take tc's, and if necessary fight a/e with well micro'd hersir)


AHH i c ill watch the recs right noww
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:04 am

tell me if u learned anything or got any ideas from them
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:20 am

AoL_Iron_maiden wrote:
tell me if u learned anything or got any ideas from them

lol well i wall a whole lot now after watching the odin guy and i tried watching urs but i had to make a account on that age grounds site and i tried to but they never sent me the confirmation mail so can u post it up here on this site, im sure it will benefit not only me but all the other noobs here Smile

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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:28 pm

okay sure ya.

umm hold on though i'll do it tomorrow. my laptop died so im on my ancient pc right now.... so i'll have to re-download it and blablabla (its late and im goin to bed in 2 secs 11)



watch it again. when u notice 'walling a whole lot', thats a nice general thing to notice 11. but this time when u watch, notice when/where/why/how/what about the walling Wink
if we as rts players understand the 'why' behind strategies and techniques, then we will better be able to execute these things and adapt them as needed Wink
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:15 pm

tl;dr maiden, sorry Smile
Did you get any good players of AoM on GR ?
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:07 pm

lol its okay idc if u didn't read it xD. i wrote it for papa smurf specifically xD

what do u mean did i get any? ive had some good games on gr, ya Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:07 am

http://aolclan.myfreeforum.org/about1305.html

heres that game, smurf
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:06 am

AoL_Iron_maiden wrote:
http://aolclan.myfreeforum.org/about1305.html

heres that game, smurf

thx bro.. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:49 pm

AoL_Iron_maiden wrote:
lol its okay idc if u didn't read it xD. i wrote it for papa smurf specifically xD

what do u mean did i get any? ive had some good games on gr, ya Very Happy

Yea, I meant that. Found anybody better than Salska here ? Surprised
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:08 am

ummm.... no he's probably the best i've played.

there's a guy running around named 'kami', ive played with him a whole bunch on eso. he's haveyounome. HE's really good, probably better than salska right now..... i dunno.... i haven't played vs either for quite a while 11
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:08 am

why do you guys suck up to iron maiden.. he's terrible
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:18 pm

Jemador_ wrote:
why do you guys suck up to iron maiden.. he's terrible
Welcome to the forum.
Hope you keep posting more valuable comments like these.
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RSA_Moes_Cavern



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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:42 am

the norse recs are very good xD but i sucks with norses xD

PD:Maiden you rally helped this guy lol cheers
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AoL_Iron_maiden



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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:11 am

Jemador_ wrote:
why do you guys suck up to iron maiden.. he's terrible
lol!

btw i finally got my laptop issues figured out Very Happy
been playin on eso mostly when im not workin Razz
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PostSubject: Re: iron maiden pls review this rec :)   Today at 11:51 am

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iron maiden pls review this rec :)
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